Wikileaks
chief defends release of classified documents
BBC
NewsNight
Wikileaks
chief defends release of classified documents
More than
90,000 documents on the war in
The
site's founder and editor Julian Assange speaks to Kirsty Wark about the
political fallout following one of the biggest leaks in
Broadcast
on Tuesday 28 July 2010.
WARK: The US Army though, has launched a criminal
investigation. Will you cooperate with
that?
ASSANGE: Of course not.
WARK: Would you be afraid to go to the
ASSANGE: I've been advised by my lawyers in relation
to an earlier matter to not go to the
WARK: On the basis that you're saying that
President Obama says he can learn from these leaks, is that what you mean?
ASSANGE: Well, I'm under the…simply that the private
rhetoric within the White House that we were receiving is starting to match up
to the public rhetoric. That was
immediately before this leak, so we'll have to see what the sort of political fallout,
but the
WARK: How confident are you that you can protect
your source or sources?
ASSANGE: We're confident that WE can protect our
sources. Now of course, we have never
lost a source, but there is always a first time. We're not a totally infallible organization,
but we have the best history in journalism.
WARK: Why then offer to give financial help to the
ASSANGE: No, not at all. We're in a situation where our technology
means we don't KNOW who our sources are.
We verify documents, we don't verify sources.
WARK: But, you're offering him financial help. Let’s just be clear. Is it financial help for LEGAL counsel?
WARK: How confident are you though about the
veracity of some of the material and actually do you know what you are dealing
with? Because the danger is that you are
putting people's lives in danger by not actually understanding what's been leaked
to you.
ASSANGE: No.
The danger is that this war continues on in the way it has been occurring,
we know, for sure, looking at that material, that around 20,000 people have
been killed since 2004. There is a
danger every day that that circumstance is not addressed.
WARK: But, some of the most damaging material that
has come out is about the Pakistani intelligence apparatus working hand in hand
with the Taliban to attack the Coalition. That comes from Afghan sources, they would say
that wouldn’t they, their history of enmity is clear?
ASSANGE: It is clear from looking at this material
that there are informers who inform for a number of reasons. There are informers who inform for
money. There are informers who inform
for revenge on perfectly innocent people.
And there are informers who inform for the truth.
WARK: Are you against the Coalition action in
ASSANGE: I am against abuses that occur in war.
WARK: Do you understand the need to fight the
Taliban and by extension Al Quada?
ASSANGE: I understand that aggressive forces need to
be opposed diplomatically and militarily in various circumstances. Now that…
WARK: But are you not concerned about your sources...
ASSANGE: …that does not in any way legitimize all acts
that occur in war. In any way.
WARK: Is there not a danger that in what you're
doing, you're giving succor to the Taliban?
ASSANGE: No.
The truth must come first. First
the truth because without the truth, no public policy is coherent.
WARK: Are you concerned at all about demoralizing US
and Coalition forces in
ASSANGE: US forces are demoralized because they have
been assassinating people without going through judicial process or because
they have been engaged in civilian casualties.
If they are demoralized by that, they should change their behavior.
WARK: Do you fear for your life?
ASSANGE: We have established security procedures with
different countries. There are security
concerns from time to time some of them very serious.
WARK: But have you ever been threatened?
ASSANGE: We've been threatened many times, yes.
WARK: And do you think you're being followed?
ASSANGE: We have surveillance events from time to
time, that are serious in terms of surveillance, they are rarely serious in
terms of physical threat.
WARK: It’s said that you are a very unusual person,
and that you essentially live out of, not necessarily two bags, but one bag
with a computer, and one bag with cloths in it.
Is that actually the truth?
ASSANGE: Well like a war correspondent I travel around
the world where I'm needed to do our tasks.
Of course, some journalists like to take a more romantic view...
WARK: Or a more, or shall we say a swashbuckling
kind of thrilleresk view, I mean, Jason Bourne comes to mind.
ASSANGE: There are elements like that that have occurred
from time to time, and they are serious.
WARK: It is said there is another tranche of
information coming out, is that true?
ASSANGE: Well we have millions of documents...
WARK: But on this Afghan, slew of material, you
arranged…
ASSANGE: There's approximately 15,000 documents that
we withheld in order to do a more extensive harm minimization review. Once that is completed those will be
released.
WARK: And there's nothing that will stop you?
ASSANGE: Courage is not the absence of fear; courage
is the understanding of fear. So there
is nothing effectively that will stop us from this.
WARK: How do you support yourself financially?
ASSANGE: Since January, when we started fundraising in
earnest, from the general public, we have received a million dollars, from
moms, dads, from people like you, from journalists, from human rights workers. Not a single dollar from any institution, not
a single dollar from a company, not a single dollar from a government.
WARK: Finally, the criticism is that this is one,
essentially a giant ego trip for Julian Assange, what do you say?
ASSANGE: Well it's completely ridiculous. We have a number of people working with us,
an extraordinary number of people. I am
in the position as a representative of those people, and to some degree as a
representative of the people who intend to read all this in this organization
and that is the sources who provide us with material.
WARK: Julian Assange thank you very much indeed.